Updated August 13, 2025 at 2:19 PM EDT
President Trump's move to take over the Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) is "very problematic" and could tarnish police relationships in the community, warns retired U.S. Capitol Police officer Harry Dunn.
Trump announced on Monday that he'll use the National Guard and MPD for at least the next 30 days to target "bloodthirsty criminals, roving mobs of wild youth, drugged-out maniacs and homeless people" in Washington, D.C. He said in his announcement that police officers will be allowed to do "whatever the hell they want."
"The whole thing about doing 'whatever the hell they want' to do, as he put it, that's very problematic for police," Dunn, who ran for Congress as a Democrat last year, told Morning Edition. "It gives bad apples cover to do whatever they want. And it's not helpful towards police relationships in the community."
On Tuesday, dozens of National Guard troops deployed into Washington, D.C., though crime in the city reached a 30-year low last year, according to data released by the MPD and U.S. attorney for D.C. in January.
Dunn served the U.S. Capitol Police — a separate agency from MPD — for 15 years and retired in 2023, about two years after helping protect the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021 from a violent mob of Trump supporters. Dunn says he's worked with D.C. police officers who were not trained to handle certain situations that require more specialized approaches, like de-escalation and mental health crises.
In an interview with NPR's Michel Martin, he voiced his concerns about the National Guard deployment and D.C. police officers having free reign to do as they please.
The following exchange has been edited for length and clarity.
Interview Highlights
Michel Martin: One of the reasons we called you is that you, like many other police officers, particularly in big departments, are trained in multiple specialties. You were a certified crisis negotiation and crisis intervention officer for the U.S. Capitol Police. You had to deal with all kinds of people like dignitaries as well as tourists, people just coming through. In your estimation, are National Guard troops equipped to patrol the city where aspects of the job could call for discernment, de-escalation, things like that?
Harry Dunn: Well, to answer your question just very bluntly, no, they're not. And that's not to diminish anything that they do or what they're prepared for, what they're capable of. When I was the Capitol Police officer for over 15 years, we had officers who were police officers that weren't trained in certain things that I was trained in. And they had other programs that they were trained in that I may have not been trained in, even though we all had police officer training. But this approach that the president is taking, he's taking a hammer when it may require a screwdriver to be very precise.
I dealt with several homeless people at the United States Capitol because it's surrounded by about three shelters within a walking distance. And, yes, there's not a lot of beds and a lot of the complaints that a lot of the homeless individuals we talked to, they said that they didn't feel safe in those shelters. So it wasn't just about getting off the street. They actually felt safer on the street than they did in some of those shelters.
Editor's note: Dunn did not serve in the National Guard.
Martin: You were there on Jan. 6 protecting lawmakers and staff members when rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol. What goes through your mind when you see the president deploying troops and federal officers now when not only is there no riot, in fact, the data says crime in D.C. is trending down?
Dunn: I'm glad that you brought up the data point because the [Home Rule Act] that he invoked — the data, what's happening on the street, doesn't support that. He should go ahead and take credit for the crack down in crime and reducing it over 25% from this time last year. At a press conference, [Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation] Kash Patel said that the murder rate is down and is trending towards its historically low levels, so it doesn't make sense. If it's down, then why bring in the National Guard, which doesn't make sense.
Editor's note: MPD data shows that violent crime is down about 26% in Washington from this time compared to last year. Overall, crime is down about 7%.
Martin: The president suggests that part of what's frustrating him is what he's described as a lack of respect for law enforcement. And he went on to say that [police officers] can now, "do whatever the hell they want." And the reason I raised that, I ask again, you were there on Jan. 6. Didn't you experience some of that? What do you think? The president didn't deploy the National Guard then, at least he was implored to do so and didn't for quite some time.
Dunn: Yeah, we absolutely sense that. It was very frustrating too, when we were out there with the other officers just waiting for help, waiting for backup. And not even to get into the political aspects of it, he had the ability to send us help, but he blamed it on the Speaker of the House at the time. But then he just sent the National Guard on a whim here on a random Monday when he decides to do it. It's very unfortunate.
Martin: What do you mean when you say it gives bad apples cover to do whatever they want? What do you mean by that?
Dunn: Well, people have always talked about police misconduct, police abuse, police oversight. And, literally, he's taking the reins off of them to do whatever the hell they want, even if that means violating somebody's rights, violating rules, [and he] just threw the rule book out of the window. And that's not good.
Martin: The head of the DC Police Union actually praised this effort. In a statement, [Chairman of the DC Police Union] Gregg Pemberton, said that adding National Guard forces will be "a critical stopgap" to address what he called "out of control crime." Why do you think you have such a different view of things?
Dunn: The National Guard has not been trained on how to deal with community relations. This is what I meant by bringing a hammer when the problem may require a screwdriver. Nobody's denying that, 'Hey, everybody wants to see crime reduced.' [...] And yes, if they were bringing attention to make sure that that is the end goal, then we're all for it.
The digital article was edited by Obed Manuel. The radio version was produced by Milton Guevara and Nia Dumas.
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