SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Harvard University, this week, agreed to give up ownership of two portraits believed to be the earliest photographs of enslaved Black people in the United States. The Harvard biologist commissioned the portraits in 1850. They capture an older Black man named Renty Taylor and his daughter Delia Taylor. The University held on to the images, which have been at the center of a legal fight for ownership over the last six years. It was brought on by Tammy (ph) Lanier, who says she is the descendant of Renty and Delia. Tammy Lanier joins us now from Norwich, Connecticut. Thank you so much for being with us.
TAMMY LANIER: Thank you for having me.
SIMON: Describe for us your relationship to Renty and Delia 'cause, I understand, records obviously can be difficult.
LANIER: Yes, absolutely. Renty is my great-great-great-grandfather, and he is the father of Delia, which would make Delia my great-great-aunt. The daguerreotypes - the images - I actually encountered for the first time the image of Renty after hearing about him for my entire life from my mother, who shared with us our oral history. And in 2010, after the passing of my mom and with the help of a local ice cream shop owner, he discovered, on the internet, a picture of Papa Renty.
SIMON: Could you tell us about that picture? It's been described as haunting.
LANIER: Yes, and exactly my sentiment. Louis Agassiz and his scientific racism...
SIMON: We should explain that. This was a Harvard biologist who had a theory of - well, I'll get you to explain it.
LANIER: Scientific racism. He theorized that Blacks were a separate, lesser species, suggesting because of this inferiority, Black people need to be enslaved at a time when the question of slavery was being hotly debated. This is a premier scientist of his day. Originally from Europe - he was born in Switzerland, and Harvard courted him. And when he arrived to the United States, he encountered a Black person for the first time and believed them to be subhuman. And we know this because he wrote this in a letter to his mother. He traveled to South Carolina, where my enslaved ancestors toiled. He - in addition to Renty and Delia, there were five other enslaved people who were photographed in the nude, who were poked and prodded, and it was a grueling process. And these daguerrotypes were created to give ocular proof of the stark differences between the Black and white race.
SIMON: What can you tell us about Renty and Delia Taylor?
LANIER: They were amazing people. The oral history about Papa Renty was that he was a person of excellence, that he was an educator, that he taught himself to read using Noah Webster's "Blue Back Speller (ph)." He would teach anyone to read if they had a desire to read, is what my mom said. And he did this at his own peril.
SIMON: May I ask, what moves through you when you take a look at those photographs now?
LANIER: When I look at Delia, I was always moved by the historical account that Delia cried during this experience. There's books that have been written - "Delia's Tears," written by Molly Rogers, where she talks about the inhumanity of the experience, and Delia's only act of passive resistance was to cry. I always wondered what became of Delia.
For Renty, when I look at him, I see the stubborn man that his oral history has proclaimed him to be. I see a man who is communicating with me, messaging me - get me out of this circumstance.
SIMON: Harvard University has said, in a statement, they were - and I'm going to quote - "not able to confirm" that you are a descendant of Renty and Delia Taylor.
LANIER: I'm glad you bring that up. They've never sat with me and looked at my genealogy. The basis of my claim is grounded in official government records, probate wills, cemetery records, slave indexes, birth certificates, death records, land records.
SIMON: I gather you have met with the great-great-great-granddaughter of the Harvard biologist?
LANIER: Yes. From the moment I talked to them, we bonded. They have been so supportive of me, and I tried to be very supportive of them. And we've worked on campaigns together. We've traveled together, and we're sisters.
SIMON: Tammy, what happens to the photographs now that Harvard's given them up?
LANIER: They are going to go to Charleston, South Carolina, to the International Afro-American Museum there. South Carolina is the state where this all began, where Renty, Delia and the other enslaved people lived and died and are buried. And so I view this as a repatriation - homegoing ceremony. And what's important about this museum, they have clean hands.
SIMON: Is this settlement justice in your mind?
LANIER: I believe it's justice for every descendant of American chattel slavery - an example of reparations - a descendant to say you have wrongfully expropriated my ancestors' cultural or intellectual or personal property, and I, as the descendant, want it back. It's a victory for ethical stewardship because at the heart of this case is for museums to look at what you hold and ask, should I be holding it? And what story should I be telling?
SIMON: Tammy Lanier. She also has a book, "From These Roots: My Fight With Harvard To Reclaim My Legacy." Thank you so much for speaking with us.
LANIER: Thank you for having me.
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